Self-esteem precedes success: Fredonia's Phil Seymore on what makes a successful man

By Ryan Maloney, assistant women's volleyball coach

Phil Seymore has been the men's basketball coach at Fredonia since 2013

"We are training not isolated men but a living group of men, nay, a group within a group. And the final product of our training must be neither a psychologist nor a brickmason, but a man. And to make men, we must have ideals, broad, pure, and inspiring ends of living, not sordid money-getting, not apples of gold." ~ W.E.B. Du Bois

After graduating college, Phil Seymore was drafted by the New York Knicks, played professionally under legendary NBA coach Phil Jackson, then spent a decade coaching directly under John Beilein, now the head men's basketball coach at the University of Michigan.

But growing up in Brooklyn's housing projects, it was never assumed that he'd even go to college in the first place.

Now Fredonia's men's basketball coach, Seymore pauses, carefully considering what it was that gave him the tools to exceed expectations: "When I wasn't doing my work, or if I wasn't interested in school, my sister would give me these African-American comic books. They'd talk about Harriet Tubman or Benjamin Banneker, and it always interested me. But, what it did, is it helped me to read. She gave me the avenue of reading."

Seymore concluded that what he really found in those books were examples, ideals even, of self-esteem: "When you can read, and you can write, you start believing in yourself, and the more you can accomplish. If you don't, then it stops you from speaking, it stops you from being aggressive, from going into an interview."

The interrelatedness of success and self-esteem has been a continual source of inquiry for Seymore throughout his career. We'd been talking about a recent podcast he listened to featuring entrepreneur Gary Vaynerchuk on those themes, which Seymore eventually tied into his own personal development as a man:

Phil Seymore: ... (Vaynerchuk) said the biggest piece of success is self-esteem. Believing that you can do it. My sister, my mother, and father, they gave me some self-esteem to feel like I could go out and work hard. They taught me manners. Even when I was 18 and I went to apply to Baskin Robbins, I had a little suit on. You might not have it all inside, but how you present yourself, and the level of confidence you have, that can get you over the hump. If somebody likes you, they'll help you, even if you don't have it all. When I went for my interview at Canisius, I poured the water for everyone. To this day they tell me that that made the difference in hiring me. Because I poured the water for everybody.

Ryan Maloney: This is a hard question to answer, but since you've spent so much time coaching men, when does a boy become a man? And how do you know? And how do you be a mentor to help that process?
Phil Seymore: It takes a while. It doesn't happen in college.

RM: That's my assumption.

Seymore: Yeah, it doesn't happen. There's a guy who I coached back when he was in high school. He owns three different bars now in Brooklyn. He's like a friend at this point, but he still introduces me to people as his coach. He's 35, and still, he's still becoming a man. He has a family. I don't think it really stops. I don't know where that definition begins. It's hard to say when it happens, I don't have a real answer.

RM: And I ask because sometimes, even personally inside my own mind, if I call myself a man, there can be this hesitation. There's this confusion there.

Seymore: One of the things it comes down to is responsibility. Accepting the responsibilities you have, whether it's to be a parent, or just being on time. Responsibility to handle things, to handle your frustrations. That responsibility is part of being a man. It's ongoing, but each hurdle overcome, that's being more of a man. Maybe a guy is trying to get a degree so he can support his family because they don't have money; that's being a man. Each one of these guys has different responsibilities and different things they have to overcome. I hope that makes sense.

RM: It does. It's very action-oriented. You can't just think about it.

Seymore: Right.

RM: And I'm wondering if you see part of your job as developing boys into men?

Seymore: While I was at Providence (Seymore coached both the men's and women's basketball teams at Providence from 2000-2011), I did this "Boys to Men" type of thing at my Church. I had these young guys, and they would automatically gravitate to me. I'd give a one-hour lecture, and right after I'm done talking, they're on me, asking me questions.

RM: So when you're talking to them, and they gravitate to you, and come ask you questions, what is it in you they're attracted to?

Seymore: I don't know, I can't really explain what it is. Maybe it's my personality, how I come across when I'm talking to people. With the ladies, they love you more openly in terms of how they feel about you ... but it was a great experience coaching women. I learned so much.


RM: And if you're going to talk about that, I'd like to know if there's anything you were able to bring back to coaching men.

Seymore: One of the first things I learned is that everybody's a human being. When I went into women's basketball, I had a young lady who told her mother that she's gay. The mother basically ostracized her. She's expressing this to me, and I don't have any issue with it, but when I saw her emotions talking about her parent... she's a human being! We're all human beings. You're daughter's gay, so you're not going to talk to your daughter no more? She's still your daughter, she's a human being. In women's basketball, that stuff is more out in the open. It awakened me to what's out there, and that you have to deal with individuals, because you don't know what's going on. I realized that you don't judge; you're not in a position to judge anyone for who they are.

RM: Is it because something like that wouldn't come out as easily in a male culture?

Seymore: Well, it's different now. Times have changed a lot. But now, I take that, and when I talk to these guys I don't allow them to say certain things around me. I don't allow them to place judgment on anybody. If you come in here for an individual meeting, you're not going to come in here and talk about somebody else. If you've got a problem with that person, let's bring him in here and we'll settle it that way. That's how we deal with it.

RM: And they've come to expect that?

Seymore: They know. Don't even come in here talking about someone else. If you're not going to talk right to that person, don't come in here and talk about it. They have to be taught how to address other people. How to work around issues. You can't come in here and judge someone... who are you? I'll slam 'em. That part of it helped transfer certain things over to the men's game, in how we handle our business. How we respect each others' space.

RM: You told me at some point that a lot of the men you'd coach in Division I all had aspirations to play professionally. Have you found it a challenge at a Division III school to motivate players who don't have that aspiration?

Seymore: When you recruit you try to find out what their motivation is, how much they love the game, how much they want to succeed. If they're here and they're playing they're doing it because they love it. They want to compete. So you try to get them to compete at a high level to strive for championships. It's hard though, I feel bad.

RM: Why?

Seymore: Because I'm not paying them anything. You've got to give your sweat suits back at the end of the year! You know what I mean? I feel so bad. They've got to wonder what they're doing this for, "I can't keep my sweats, I can't do these individual workouts, I've got to take care of school, so where do I go with this?" So you've got to find that piece in the man to see if he really wants it or not, and you've got to get the most people you can who are like that. It's a juggling act. If you've got guys that are competitors, you can go a long way. You might have to make it a little more fun for them. They love the camaraderie. But they still have to understand they have to compete, and then you apply that to their life lessons.

RM: So you have to be a lot more patient in some ways.

Seymore: Yeah, I do. For me, it's a growth thing, I can't take things personally. You can't take it personal.

RM: From the players?

Seymore: Yeah, but from anybody. I can't take things personally, because you don't know what's behind that other person. You've got to work around it and try to understand that person. Because if you take it personal, you're not trying to understand. That's who they are. So why are they like that, and how can we convince them to get what we want out of them? The only way you can do that is by trying to know them, and understand them. That's the big hurdle for me, learning not to take things personal with individuals.

It's good for me to talk about, because it reminds me of the stuff that I need to do.